Speak at My Conference…. for Free? My Thoughts
Oct/0977
OK – it’s time for a little rant. It’s not my normal style of posting but it’s something I’ve been wanting to talk about for a while.
The Invitation – Speak at My Conference?
Last week I received an email from a conference organizer in the US offering me the opportunity to speak at their social media conference. I’d not heard of him or the conference before but the site looked pretty good and the lineup of confirmed speakers seemed good (mainly representatives of companies, but fairly high profile companies).
The only problem is that the conference is in the USA and I live in Melbourne Australia.
I replied back to the organizer saying that they look like they’ve put together an interesting conference but asking if they had budget for speakers (there was no mention of any in the previous email). I explained that I live in Australia and that I’d need to find a way to at least cover costs.
Calculating the Cost
The reply came today – we’d be happy to give you free entry to the conference but don’t have budget for speakers.
Ouch!
I begin to do the calculations. The site says that a pass to the event is around $800 – that’s my ‘payment’.
Then there’s the expenses of the trip. They include airfares (around $2200 including the flight to the US and then a connecting flight to the conference (a 20 hour trip each way), hotels (4 nights – if I stayed at the conference hotel this would be another $700), taxis, meals, drinks etc. Perhaps if I went to a cheaper hotel and shopped around for flights I’d get away with $2500 for the conference.
Also in the expense column is time – there’s time to prepare for the session but then travel and the conference. All up I’d need to be away from home for 7 days, possibly 6 if I didn’t have a day to find my feet and get over the jet lag before the conference (something I try to do).
7 days away from family sucks from my end (I miss them) – but it means a pretty big sacrifice for my family who has to rearrange their schedule a fair bit as we have 2 toddlers who have a routine that I’m a fairly big part of.
7 days away also means time away from my business. I can do some of it from the road – but not everything. This means in the week before leaving there’s double the work and the week after there’s catchup work. I do have some part time admin support but I’m largely a one man business – it’s hard to take time away.
So on the plus side – I get a $800 free pass to the conference – and as most speakers know the opportunity to network, present myself as someone worth hiring or buying from.
Conferences can be lucrative if you are selling something – problem is that that’s not my business model. I build blogs that people read, my income is largely advertising based – 500 or so people at a conference don’t convert to a heap of extra income even if they all decide to become weekly readers. Yep I do sell a couple of things – but they’re fairly low end and not overly expensive products – I like to keep even my best stuff affordable.
Perhaps I could cover my financial costs by going into a hard sales pitch for my e-book during my session (although all they were offering me was to be on a panel) – but you know what? I don’t want to SELL during my presentation – that’s not my style, I want my presentations to be about delivering value to attendees not selling something to people. I do whatever I can to pack so much useful content in to my presentations that people find it hard to keep up! I don’t want to be the guy at the conference who spends half his time big noting what he can do for people or pointing out what competitors don’t do right! I want to give value, not a sales pitch (more on this below).
So it’s pretty clear that this type of ‘opportunity’ just doesn’t fit with where I’m at. Perhaps if I lived in another part of the world or perhaps if I had an expensive product or service to sell it could be worth it – but the reality is that I’m passing.
So why the rant?
Why don’t I just pass and move on? Shouldn’t I just change my business model (and introduce some expensive products to sell) and get on with it?
Perhaps this is coming off as me just complaining about not getting paid or only being in it for the money – but I should say that I do occasionally speak at conferences for free (in fact I’ve done it many times).
I did one a few weeks back because the proceeds of the conference went to charity. I’m speaking at Blog World Expo in Vegas in a couple of weeks time for free (they’re at least paying for my flight), I did one a few weeks back because I believed in the ethos that the organizer had and wanted to support them in getting it up and running. If it is something I believe in then there’s certainly been plenty of times that I’ve taken time out and even taken a hit financially to be a part of it.
However – I also have done quite a few freebie conferences over the years that I’ve later regretted being a part of – where I’ve felt used, where there was no win/win, where I’ve been given a token gift for my effort.
In the conference I’m talking about above – here are some of the reservations I have (based upon past experience):
- The conference is making money – I know, times are tough and it’s hard to be in event planning – but this conference has 10-15 gold and silver partners/sponsors plus numerous others. It has exhibitors. It is charging $800 a head (they’re saying over 450 are registered to attend already). It’s held numerous other conferences on the same topic in other parts of the world. If it were not profitable they would not be doing it.
- As a conference attendee I’m completely sick of presentations by people who have to cover their costs of being there by selling themselves or their services. Not paying your speakers means that they have to get paid for their time in some other way – some smart ones do this in a way that still manages to deliver value to attendees, but many do not. How many times have you had to sit through sponsored presentations or pseudo sales pitches at a conference you’ve paid to attend?
- I’ll bring registrations – this might sound a little ego driven but last time I spoke at a conference the organizer told me that he’d had 50 or so registrations because I was part of the line up. Now this number will vary a lot from conference to conference and I don’t promise to promote every event I go to – but I know as a conference attendee that I’ve registered for some simply because I wanted to hear a certain speaker do their thing. I’ve worked hard to build my profile over the years – I’m more than happy to lend that profile for free to help good causes or things that I believe in…. but when you’re going to directly benefit from it financially in a purely commercial sense – I think it only fair that there’s some kind of acknowledgment of that. On a side note – the conference that this post is about actually asked me in their pitch to tweet and blog about it – I found this particularly ‘cheeky’.
- The best conferences I’ve been to were where the speakers were paid generously (in fact one I went to the speakers actually were not only paid but got some very nice (and not cheap) surprise gifts at the end) and asked not to ‘pitch’ during their presentations. These are the kinds of conferences I’d pay to attend again and again, they’re the ones I ask others to come to with me – they’re all about giving value to those who attend and acknowledging it from those who contribute.
Again – I know event planning isn’t easy and the economy is tough at the moment and perhaps I’m being totally naive about the whole business….
But in the end I guess I wanted to put it out there that if you’re putting on a conference and you want a speaker that perhaps actually making it worth their while will not only help you to attract those that you want to speak – but perhaps it’d also give them more incentive to put together presentations that delivered value rather than sales pitches – something that will benefit those attending your conferences and the bottom line in the long term as people worked out if they’d attend again next year.
End of Rant – now it’s over to you. Feel free to come back at me with why I’m wrong, what you’d add or your own experiences of both being an attendee or speaker at a conference.
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12:35 pm on October 6th, 2009
I am with you 100%. Both for my blog and separate day job, I have been asked to speak at events simply because ‘it’ll build my brand’ or ‘it’ll build your market”. To be honest, travel + time away + lost opportunity simply to meet 2500 people is rarely worth it unless you are selling something specific to a highly targeted audience…(no offense to the 2500 people).
Jay
12:36 pm on October 6th, 2009
Sounds like the organizer of the company thinks you will feel lucky to join them — spending money from your own pocket. :P
12:38 pm on October 6th, 2009
Thanks for your insight, Darren.
I’m afraid I have no experience as an organizer or speaker – but I do have some as an attendee.
So – lately we both went to Marketing Now. The proceeds went to charity. We got two days of awesome content. I didn’t get pitched – I had to go up to individuals and ask them more about their projects. I got a lot out of it.
Then there was the DM scott masterclass. He didn’t pitch his own stuff. He didn’t have to. He just blew us away with the quality of his content and created a situation where, if I had the $1000, I would happily pay for an hour of his time.
I would rather pay extra to hear value rather than pay less to hear a pitch.
I do understand your frustration. Regardless of where you stand in the blogosphere or speaking arena, you will feel like your getting used.
Hope BWE is great! :-)
- Jade
12:39 pm on October 6th, 2009
Well said, Darren. Glad you posted this.
In any situation, there’s got to be some sort of a win-win – or else someone is getting screwed. People who feel like they’re getting screwed or who have to snatch a win out of what would otherwise be a win-lose situation don’t make good presenters, as you’ve said. So the organizers are totally shooting themselves in the foot on this one, whether you ended up coming or not.
It makes you wonder – since social media at its best involves a win-win participatory conversation – what kind of “social media” these guys are actually into. Scary.
12:41 pm on October 6th, 2009
You’re not wrong, not by a long shot.
Asking you to speak at a conference where the payment is ‘free entry’ is like asking a band to perform at a festival with ‘free entry’.
Unfortunately many people do not fully understand the difference between infinite and scarce good, and thus make mistakes about which one can and should be free.
Infinite good, like your blog for example, can be free, and benefit everyone positively by being free. There is also an expectation of free.
But an appearance or giving a talk? Well you can’t copy and paste that like a blog post. It is most definitely not infinite. Its scarce. And so it’s valuable. So valuable your do deserve to be compensated for your work.
Perhaps the organisers thought they were doing you a favour by giving you ‘free entry’. I was offered free entry to help with a conference in canberra, and if I could have afforded the airfares and hotel, spending half the conference on the registration desk would have been worth it. But no one was paying to see me on the rego desk. If I were giving a talk, like you were asked, ‘free entry’ is no compensation.
12:42 pm on October 6th, 2009
I don’t blame you,
If these guys are charging $800 bucks a head and are to tight to at least cover your costs then I would blow them a big fat rasberry and wish them all the best.
I can’t stand pitch fest seminars and I dislike them even more when I have to sacrifice my time away from my family to attend them.
12:48 pm on October 6th, 2009
I could not agree more. If it’s costing you money to get/be there, you should be compensated to at least cover your expenses and time. Professional speakers make sure they are compensated, and so should business owners who speak. Your expertise cost you time and money to get, and you are cutting down the learning curve of those in attendance.
Besides, I’ve heard you speak, and you’re well worth listening to. If they don’t get that, well, it’s their problem (and lack of knowledge in event planning!) :)
12:51 pm on October 6th, 2009
This is a great post. I am a novice blogger that just does this on my own time. Although, my business takes me to MANY conferences where you are wondering why you paid the fee of entry. Pitches and sales tactics – are no where as good as the content that you get when you pay for your speakers.
You are not wrong – and deserved the rant. :)
12:55 pm on October 6th, 2009
I’m sorry, Darren, but that is my world…and that of many, many others in education and health. Any time I speak at a conference I NEVER get paid. I presented an hour’s workshop at a conference last week on the topic of Second Life and the conference organisers didn’t even give me free registration – it cost $1000 AU for registration. Needless to say, it cost me a couple of thousand dollars to attend.
I suggest that conference organizers need to think how they ‘beam in’ overseas speakers to reduce costs yet get the benefit of the speakers’ wisdom.
12:57 pm on October 6th, 2009
I’m 100% with you Darren … there’s something special when you get honoured for speaking. It shows that the conference organisers and the delegates value not only the time they have of yours today … but also the previous years of learning, winning, failing and experimenting that has brought you to where you are today.
12:57 pm on October 6th, 2009
Darren – thanks for this post. It’s something I’ve been thinking about, especially since I’m on the “D List” and I know the ‘rock star’ keynotes get paid at the same event. Sometimes it seems to me conference organizers believe you should pay them for the privilege of speaking.
1:01 pm on October 6th, 2009
Brilliant, I like when you are speaking out loud. If more speakers were paid their true value, maybe there would be less conferences where so much of the conference is a sales pitch:)
1:05 pm on October 6th, 2009
Darren,
I could speak almost every week for free somewhere and never pay my bills. I do occasionally as I love to speak, but only occasionally.
Times (and conferences) are tough, but presumably they are making money as you said. They are not getting free coffee, food, or conference space – what makes them think they can get free speakers?
I spoke last week. I was gone far away from the family most of the week. I also got paid which made the equation work.
You can always get “someone” to speak for free. You can probably also get “free” conference space by holding the event in sheep paddock :)
1:06 pm on October 6th, 2009
I totally understand where you’re coming from with this (maybe not the “I’ll bring registrations” bit) and I completely agree.
I’ve been asked to speak at a couple of conferences recently which I’ve turned down for similar reasons. Being new to the speaking scene I was surprised to learn that there is no budget allocated for speakers.
I’m at a stage where building my profile is certainly at the top of my list of priorities. I launched my consultancy in Jan of this year but have been working in
my industry for 10. At this stage I’m busy building my online businesses and moving away from the consulting model so from that perspective there wasn’t too much to gain as far as new business.
Of course I can see the value it would have in profile building but at this stage of being self employed I just couldn’t justify the time it would take and that it would take me further from my goals.
The thing that really turned me off though was a few comments about how much money the organiser was going to make, how they would be recording the presentations and selling them online and how much value they get from female speakers. All without having to pay them anything.
I find it hard to understand why there’s no budget for speakers considering the organisers wouldn’t have a conference without them.
1:08 pm on October 6th, 2009
I also agree with you. You made many good points here, but the one that sticks with me is the one my friend points out when we get these offers: “Someone is making money here”. And when it’s the organizers ONLY and not the speakers, that seems a bit askew.
1:08 pm on October 6th, 2009
“I want my presentations to be about delivering value to attendees not selling something to people” – exactly. This is what draws people to conferences and allows the best speakers to surprise and delight the audience. The rest is echo.
1:10 pm on October 6th, 2009
well as ogden nash said, in the world of mules, there are no rules. this conference planner had no idea if free entry was enough of a draw/value for you– and it was free for them to ask. if it wasn’t, well, no harm done. every situation is different. i just did a series of events in florida, the did one of my plays and then i did 2 freebie speaking events where i sold books (they guaranteed a minimum sales number)– not huge money, BUT they put me up in a fab hotel for a week and picked up all expenses, so i got a much needed free vacation out of it.
normally it’s not really a good idea to get on a plane to speak for less than 2-3k at minimum, and i do mean minimum. and yes, some event planners are either clueless or shifty . . . if the former, you have a responsibility to educate them, it’s part of the negotiation. you can’t expect other people to understand the value you bring.
but it all depends . . . i have an event coming up where it might not be a big fee but it’s so big it’s likely i will sell 400 books. at $15 a copy that’s 6k. i would speak for free at any event where i could do that.
but again, there are many event planners who naive amateurs, they really believe their event is worthwhile but you need to make your own judgement. that whole “it’s great exposure” argument is classic . . . we all make errors and occasionally get used by such people– price of doing business.
1:53 pm on October 6th, 2009
That’s not right, they should offer you full board and accomodation. Or may be they think that Melbourne is somewhere in California? :)
2:14 pm on October 6th, 2009
Thank you very much for writing this Darren! Thanks for holding true to your values!
I believe that there CAN always be a budget made for speakers/ and content producers.. Somehow, somewhere someone is getting paid and it’s a shame that some of us have relied so much on harnessing the free content/free speeches and free good will to MAKE the show happen.
Pay the people I say! It will make the show/event/project so much better and feelings of resentment will not happen!
For myself, I choose what events I will do on my OWN Charitable basis… I don’t let others “Pick Me” because I’m good at what I do. I know I am Very Good at specialty and that’s what I love to do… and It’s up to us to determine our self worth and our value. Hold True and People will pay for you and your service! :)
Thanks again
April
2:43 pm on October 6th, 2009
I’ve followed a couple of big blogging conferences closely (via hashtags and blog post reviews) this year and it seems many of them are losing their focus–trying harder to ’sell’ than to ’serve.’
What *is* encouraging to me is that I’ve also seen conferences take a much different approach this year–putting far more of the presentations online (either at no cost to the viewer or at a reasonable price; live speakers mixed with pre-taped). When you think about all the costs (tangible and intangible) involved in getting speakers and attendees to a conference–it really is a pretty big waste. I imagine in the future that conferences will be a nice hybrid of what we already have.
3:23 pm on October 6th, 2009
It’s a dilemma. Like Sarah, some of this is my world – I’m a volunteer peer counselor for newly diagnosed cancer patients. Since I volunteer that time (sometimes 40 or more hours/week in an active week) it’s often assumed that I’d be equally willing to volunteer to travel and present to a larger group. But your point about travel taking time away from your life and your work is so on the mark. Even in my paying gig dayd job, it’s hard to make them understand that if I have to add a monthly commute to support a remote site, I’ll need an extra $10-12K/year — to cover travel, staying at the remote site, boarding the animals at home and maintaining my residence from a distance.
I also will lend my time – if it’s close by, convenient to me, etc. But if presenting means uprooting my life for a week with no more compensation than the honor and glory of having that presentation on my resume, and maybe a free pass to the event, I’d have to ask myself hard questions about whether the benefits justified the costs – financial, emotional, physical and stress.
5:05 pm on October 6th, 2009
Amen. I now charge to speak. Since my business is not as portable as yours – most of my income comes from consulting – and I have to travel as far as you (New Zealand) I charge for five days lost income.
Did you go back to them with a counter-offer? Sometimes works.
If you actually want to go to the conf, another option is to offer to do a paid workshop before/after the conf with shared income from it – a win/win.
@the guy who commented that he didn’t even get free reg for speaking, that’s unspeakable :)
6:34 pm on October 6th, 2009
Great post, somebody has to say this and who better than you! There are so many folk asking for freebies in the name of “let’s be open and free spirited” on the internet right now… Fair enough if you decide to be free spirited but when you are expected to give up your time and efforts not just work time but family time – all in the name of sharing your expertise it can get a bit rich quite quickly. A couple of local magazines have been asking me for articles and frankly it miffs me that they don’t offer some sort of remuneration: they surely have a budget and they should surley compensate for my time and input… What is the impression that “Bloggers do it for free”? No, I love sharing and promoting blog friends and will guest post for any blog friend/cause of mine – because I choose to … but lets face it: there really is no such thing as a free lunch: Give and take fellows!!!
8:26 pm on October 6th, 2009
I am so with you on this one. I’ve been a paid, professional speaker for years and I’ve noticed lately that people want me to do a teleclass for them for free, or speak for free or even consult for free! I do believe in pro bono work, but I’ve created a pretty firm policy against these types of offers. Unless I see some huge upside – and that’s rare – I politely decline.
8:53 pm on October 6th, 2009
I don’t think you’re wrong at all! I’ve never been in or participated in a business-related conference as of yet, but your reasons are sound and I completely agree with you! This conference is definitely not placing much value on their speakers, and your time (and money) is worth much more than what they’ve offered you.
9:24 pm on October 6th, 2009
Sounds like an inexperienced temporary worker who is unfamiliar with who you are/where you are located was hired to do the organizing. If not, that person certainly is bold, but crossed a line into having no class whatsoever. Perhaps it’s a “desperate times call for desperate measures” sort of thing.
10:23 pm on October 6th, 2009
I speak for free to college students (within a reasonable drive) and once or twice a year for a charity I believe in. Otherwise, just like if someone wants to hire my agency — my expertise has been hard earned and worth something. I don’t need to pay off my mortgage, but I do need to be paid a reasonable speakers fee.
That’s why I rarely get asked to speak at Social Media type conferences, but am as busy as I can be, time-wise, with industry conferences, associations, etc.
No one will value us if we don’t expect/demand to be valued.
Drew
10:24 pm on October 6th, 2009
I certainly understand your frustration, Darren. However, while understanding that this is a different world, I’ll add a different perspective. This is more the model for almost all academic conferences. No one gets paid to speak, most don’t even get conference registration. Attendees travel from all sorts of places to get there. Presenters work for weeks on their presentations. And they pay the conference registration fee for the privilege of coming to do their presentation. The idea is that these people all come together to share information and ideas. They want what they have to say heard by others in the field.
Now, I understand that the basic frame is different. No one is making a fortune on academic conferences. I know nothing about the conference or the organizer in your situation, but it may just be possible that he’s coming from a different perspective. He may not think he’s trying to take advantage of you. From his point of view, offering you the $800 registration fee may be incredibly generous.
Just one (slightly) dissenting view.
11:35 pm on October 6th, 2009
I think you’re completely right. I’d rant about this too if I were you. To charge attendees $800 and not expect to pay quality speakers is ridiculous. Seems to me that the excellence of the presenters would increase if they were at least reimbursed for traveling expenses, and that attendees would subsequently get more value for their registration fees.
2:50 am on October 7th, 2009
I’m a little surprised that the conference organizers would consider the $800 fee as part of your compensation. If you are speaking at the event it seems like there shouldn’t be any question that you wouldn’t have to pay for admission. You’ve been asked to speak and it should not in the end cost you something to come. My husband and I pastor a small church in upstate NY and sometimes when we have speakers they might not get what we wish they could have because we don’t have the ability. However, our people start early setting aside offerings for them…we do our best to make sure it is not a bust for them. On the other hand the organizers may not understand that not everyone will make a profit from direct sales at the conference….and my perspective is from a small church conference. I just believe, “the workman is worthy of his hire”.
2:52 am on October 7th, 2009
All true, except the part where you said “They must be making a profit or they wouldn’t be doing this.”
Actually, almost none have made a profit in the last two years, which is why many of them don’t exist anymore (sadly).
Of course that doesn’t refute your main point, which I whole-heartedly agree with. Perhaps a way to argue your case without talking about their profitability is to talk about the $100/head they’re being charged by the convention center or hotel just for coffee! Yes it’s a rip-off, but the point is they have lots of other expenses and for “speakers” not to be one of them is absurd.
In fact, giving you $2500 (at least) would be one of the best “ROI’s” they would spend money on.
P.S. Vicki is right about academic conferences — they have a tradition of not making money AND not paying speakers, so in that case I think you just have to say “It doesn’t work for me” without expecting them to change.
For a commercial conference, however, you’re spot on!
2:53 am on October 7th, 2009
Great points, I’d completely agree. That’s quite the audacity of these organizers to “take advantage” of you, your brand, and your past generosity this way. You bring up really good points. All would-be conference organizers should take heed of these!
As for academic conferences, that’s not even comparing apples to oranges, here…. so I’m not sure I would do that. Don’t be fooled by the fact that they are labelled with the same word.
2:55 am on October 7th, 2009
As everyone else has already opined, you are exactly right. My greater objection is to corporations who ask professional speakers to keynote an event at no reimbursement or compensation on the pretense that the speaker will gain excellent exposure and the possibility of consulting or training engagements. I wonder whether the executives and employees would consider attending without reimbursement or compensation; after all, they would be gaining valuable skills, insights, and competencies! And here the person who is bringing the expertise to the meeting is supposed to come free. GMaB.
2:58 am on October 7th, 2009
Darren,
I own an event firm in Canada & NEVER have I asked anyone to speak for free. In the case of some charity/educational events, it is always ok to call in a “favour” once in a while but in this case we always keep it local so we can cover whatever minimal costs are incurred in transport, etc.
While you make a great point about the industry of event planning being “tough” right now…..part of the planning should involve budgeting, which this industry is notoriously poor at.
Staying selective in your choice of engagement will ensure that your presentations are anxiously anticipated and as such, should only raise the fee in which you are entitled to!
3:02 am on October 7th, 2009
Hey Darren,
I just wanted to thank you for writing this post. It’s something even rising conference speakers such as myself struggle with, especially when you’re trying to capitalize on the momentum. For some conferences I’ve felt the struggle would be worth the end result, such as SxSW. I was completely right.
I guess in the end it’s on us to weigh the pros and cons of attending conferences without pay and you’ve done a great job of outlining the most important things to consider. Thanks again Darren.
3:03 am on October 7th, 2009
I just began to tell my wife about this experience you’ve had and in mid-sentence, she interrupted me to say, “It’s a Christian organization, isn’t it?” That made me laugh and just wanted to share it!
3:04 am on October 7th, 2009
Darren, with you on this. I’ve been asked for a number of years to present at a local universities student organised marketing conference – and have done so gladly. Now I’m being asked by a former classmate to present to a marketing class she’s being paid to lecture – not on! I’m not sure why some people think their right to earn income is greater than my own.
3:17 am on October 7th, 2009
Darren,
I’m not sure who started this nonsense, but it’s all part of a growing trend to acquire “free content” — and writers and bloggers are partially to blame! Because so many of us are willing to work for free just to elevate our names in the Google rankings, there is no value being placed on the creation of content. As long as publishers, editors and conference planners know that there are writing professionals out there who are giving away the farm, they will expect it from everyone else.
Trust me. I was the editor of a top regional parenting publication and my superiors were always trying to find ways to cut the editorial budget. After I left, they “fired” all the freelance writers I had carefully hand-picked and honed through the years, and now guess who is writing the content for this parenting magazine? A bunch of young, college interns who are NOT mothers, but rather, probably still living at home with their moms and dads. And they’re doing it for FREE, so management thinks it has found a real goldmine, when in actuality, they are deceiving their readers and advertisers into thinking that the writers are real experts in parenting.
We all need to take a collective stand and REFUSE to offer up our creative talents for free. If they don’t want to pay for the real talent, then they will get bargain-basement-quality writers, speakers and presenters. Then let’s see how long the advertisers will stay onboard at these magazines or how many attendees they will attract at $800 a pop.
Feel free to e-mail me with your thoughts at: Boatfolk@aol.com.
Lynn
3:30 am on October 7th, 2009
I’l echo Vicki–many nonprofit organizations and associations, also outside academia, offer conferences for which they may charge $800 a head but whatever revenue they actually make–usually minimal–helps pay for the org’s services. I worked with one that literally could not break even if they paid speakers their usual rate, so they asked all of them to speak for the same fee of $0. Those who accepted were doing it to advance the field and out of loyalty to the organization. Rarely was travel reimbursed–thus almost all speakers were domestic–though this org did pay one night of the hotel. It’s simply a different model, though, from the for-profit conference. You’re never wrong to “just say no” if the opportunity isn’t one!
3:35 am on October 7th, 2009
First (and the only) question: Have you made any agreement with them to “show up” during the email conversation?
If the answer is a no … you’re on the safe side. :)
It was a turn-off to see that you have to pay to get the entrance pass and have your “air-time”. Not covering accommodation or even travel expenses? Kinda like a rip-off.
Even if the entrance $800 was waived, the words “but no budget for speakers” crosses the line.
That’s like 3 strikes for them. Out.
Besides that, this post showed that you’ve analyzed the situation, and weighing in the costs before making a rationale decision. That’s a thumbs up. :)
3:43 am on October 7th, 2009
Vicki, I think you’re missing the point a little. I also attend academic conferences, but there are key differences:
First, the conferences are rarely money-making enterprises.
Second, most attendees don’t pay out of their own pockets but are funded by their institutions. Most conferences offer cheap or free attendance to postgrads.
Third, it tends to be a key part of the job rather than an extra.
Thus, while I’m happy to speak for free at academic conferences, I wouldn’t consider doing the same for a commercial one. They are totally different creatures.
3:48 am on October 7th, 2009
I Disagree…..
Only joke but everyone else agreed.. with you.. I run a series of conference in the UK, we don’t pay speakers to speak… Not every conference makes as much money as people think, our conference charges £99 a ticket, with 100 attendees and a delegate rate of £40, that doesn’t leave you much when you add on insurance, lighting, sound, AV and other costs… We do however pay for travel and a hotel for the speakers (and other halves) if we were to pay speakers, it would just directly go onto the ticket fee… I realise when people are charging $800 for a ticket, your getting a bad deal, but not every conference does that and some of the blanket statements in the comments seem to cast every conference in that light.
(We don’t pay travel costs from USA or Australia)
4:02 am on October 7th, 2009
I’ve never been to a conference nor been asked to speak at one but I was furious about what they were trying to do. They sound like they wanted something premium for free so they can make more profit. $800 a head is not cheap these days on just a conference! I’m shocked they had no budget to pay for any part of the trip considering the entrance fee and the sponsorships.
You were right in being upset. I would too.
4:22 am on October 7th, 2009
Well stated! I have spoken at exactly one conference, and it was unpaid. As a newbie to public speaking, I was honored to speak and never even considered money as a motivator. Also, I work for a non-profit and was speaking on their behalf. I was arguably fund-raising at the event (talking about SETI’s data storage needs) so I think I may be the rare case where pitching and delivering valuable content coincide. Feel free to decide for yourself, they recorded the talk and I stream it from http://bit.ly/o7y4U here.
Since that talk, I’ve proposed a talk at another conference where I don’t expect payment. I suspect at some point I will consider that a priority, but I’ll need to develop myself as a speaker first.
Thanks for your perspective!
4:33 am on October 7th, 2009
I agree with you also, Darren. That was very bold, and as anyone with a family knows, business travel is not easy, so there is more than a financial sacrifice at hand.
I also think you are wise to stay away from events that push the hard sell. Ugh. Who wants to be part of something that lacks so much class that it charges people $800 to sell them things?
5:58 am on October 7th, 2009
The bottom line is that you are the ‘talent’ that attracts people to the conference. You will be spending your time (and even money – I buy many of the images I use on iStockPhoto, spend money on research sometimes, etc.) on making a kickass presentation to make their audience happy and want to recommend the conference to others.
Frankly, conferences that don’t even cover expenses (unless you are local and it costs nothing) are saying to their speakers, “We don’t respect you.” And this comes around to bite those conferences in the ass. As a frequent conference attendee as well as a speaker, I can tell instantly when a conference has mistreated their speakers. It shows in the presentations. The presentations are usually recycled and have a pitchy feel to them (because that’s how it’s been framed for the speaker – speak here and get clients).
Stick to your guns. I rarely speak for free these days and ALWAYS have at least my expenses covered, yet I get frequent gigs. And I’m glad I turn down multiple speaking gigs. Those conferences usually end up falling flat (as per attendee feedback).
Tara
6:45 am on October 7th, 2009
Darren, I love your commitment to keep even your “best stuff affordable” and I personally think your business model rocks! It’s much of why you’re so easy to love. :)
7:29 am on October 7th, 2009
Wow you have completely expressed my frustrations. The worse offenders are the local organizations that seem to think just because I am local I am free or cheap. Especially when they are charging people to hear me!
Great Post and thanks for the Rant
7:38 am on October 7th, 2009
I agree with you Darren. Either the conference organizers assume that their “guest” speakers have marketing materials/books they can push, thereby covering some if not all of their expenses, or the speaker can afford to travel all over hell’s half-acre to share their expertise “gratis” to attendees who have obviously paid a fee to listen.
Why don’t organizers start contacting speakers early on, figure out how much they charge to appear and then factor in this cost into their ticket/venue price?
And, since we live in 2009, why didn’t they think to ask if you would consider appearing via WebEx or other online method?
I’m glad you shared your experience and your opinion and will have to stand my ground when I’m famous like you and I’m asked to appear at a conference! ;-)
Thank you for your blog – I appreciate the information you share.
7:42 am on October 7th, 2009
Can you tell me the definition of a volunteer? Someone who is good for nothing! As a speaker, I am very qualified. Many organinzations want me to speak for them but can’t afford to pay me, or it is a charity and they choose not to. So, here is the model that I have started that makes my record keeping easier and gives them what they are looking for. They write you a check for the value of your presentation and you write them a check back as a donation. This validates my position as a paid speaker and gives me a papertrail to write off my time.
Reach for your dreams. It is the only way you will ever acheive them.
Tim Stewart
http://www.reachforyoredreams.com
r4yd@comcast.net
7:57 am on October 7th, 2009
Ugh, I totally agree. It’s not just speaking either. In a previous life I was a radio presenter and we were often asked to attend events in our own time and at our own expense (time, travel and energy). We didn’t mind the charity events but often we were asked to work at events where everyone was getting paid except the presenters (radio station, promo people, event organisers)…like we should be thankful for the extra exposure.
There seem to be more and more events being put on, especially on the subject of social media, but if the event is worth organising then the speakers should be worth paying for. The better the speakers, the better the event. The better the incentives are for the speakers to come without having to worry about pitching their products during their slot, the better quality of event for everyone.
Lisa
7:59 am on October 7th, 2009
I completely agree! I am holding a conference in next year and the word is that you don’t pay speakers. I believe in paying people for their time. Thank you for this very timely “rant.” :)
8:19 am on October 7th, 2009
You rock! It needs to be said much louder! I get the same requests all the time. The conference producers seem to think that part of the “payment” is exposure and a potential consulting engagement from an attendee. The latest practice is “get access to the conference for free” and we’ll pay you “$200 flat for flight, rental car, hotel, parking, meals and incidentals for a 3-day conference where you have to speak 3 times or you don’t qualify even for the $300.00 – I am starting to decline and move on.
8:27 am on October 7th, 2009
Thanks so much for this rant, Darren. I’m just getting into the speaking business and my model is much like yours: I get hardly any consulting clients from the talks so they have to be a profitable end in themselves. Unless it was a charitable benefit of some kind it’s hard for me to think of a conference I’d speak at for no fee. I’ll keep this post in mind next time I’m asked.
9:07 am on October 7th, 2009
Thanks for this, Darren
I happened to come across your post as I had written another one about “The Economics of Free or Why I Don’t Do Things for Free Anymore”. Chris brogan just wrote about this and so did Tara Hunt. It seems we all are thinking about these issues more and more.
I really appreciate conferences where AT LEAST my expenses are covered. But I appreciate more those who provide me with a speaking fee!
1:21 pm on October 7th, 2009
Darren-Great post. This problem has been around for many years; I remember fighting it back in the 90s when I spoke on technology. Now it’s social media. Your first reaction might be(if you’re a consultant like me), this is my intellectual property and how I make a living (would many lawyers give away free advice…doctors doing free surgeries?). But the sad truth is most speeches are unpaid gigs. Sure Seth Godin might make big bucks when he speaks, but few of us are SG. Still we should stick to our guns, depending on our personal strategies. I rarely would travel to do a free presentation unless it’s a very special VIP group or organization I’m trying to help out. Try to work something out, even if it’s a bartering deal (ex: access to a subscriber mailing list, or get listed in the org’s annual directory or website). The last time I was asked to speak for free by an out-of-state communications organization, I asked if they could have members ante up $49 apiece to cover my cost and fees, and I gave them a minimum number who would need to attend to make it worthwhile.I would deliver a workshop-like presentation, 90 min. plus 30 min (or more) of questions, focused on social media for business topics, tailored a little for their members. We’re still talking but good chance we can work something out. If you do something free, see if you can do a webcast and at least save the travel (of course, you lose networking opportunities but with today’s crazy schedules–and great technology– it’s a good option). In any case, it’s up to you to make a stand and remember the old saying, “time is money.” Never so true as today.
2:06 pm on October 7th, 2009
I admire your commitment to offering “value” – on your blog and at conferences. I sincerely hope that conference planners take your words to heart…
3:00 pm on October 7th, 2009
Hey, Darren, this topic would have been great for us to chat about when we first met at Tweetupmellers a couple of months ago.
As a full-time, professional Hoax Speaker, MC & Corporate Comedian, I can assure you that conference organisers try this on a lot. For all your readers who are credible experts in their field, and who are getting asked to speak at conferences, here is my take on things, from many years of experience.
The simple fact is, there are several types of speakers out there. Firstly, there are plenty of wannabes who would crawl over broken glass to speak for free, especially if they can also sell product or services to the audience. Often these wannabes are not the real gurus in their field, but a couple of levels down – they’ve read three short books on the subject and now they ‘know it all’. (I’m sure you can picture one or two in your mind right now.)
These wannabes, who are generally driven by ego or greed – or both – see the notion of speaking at conferences as a way of fast-tracking their rise to the top. They are NOT Darren Rowse, but they SSSOOOOOOOOOOO want to be you. They just don’t want to put in the hard yards like you have; they want to jump on the socialmedia bandwagon and turn it into their personal gravytrain overnight.
Because this is such a ‘sexy’ growth industry, we’ll see a lot more of these people come out of the woodwork soon, ripping off the content and style of the real experts. Socialmedia marketing is perceived by many as the new Gold Rush, and it’s well known that a lot of the people who ‘struck gold’ during those times were the folk who SOLD the shovels, rather than used them. Some of the modern-day shovel-sellers include wannabe speakers and conference organisers.
It is the wannabe speakers that really make it hard for the pros. And the wannabes are what some conference organisers rely on – if you won’t do it for nix, there’s someone else who will.
Another group of speakers are the genuine experts who are just happy to share their knowledge, and are content to have their travel expenses covered. They often appear at industry or association conferences, where the communication is mainly peer to peer.
A third group of speakers also includes the real industry gurus who are cutting-edge and possess the insight and wisdom that can make a big difference to conference delegates. This group is somewhat like the second, except that they expect a fair return on the value they deliver, because they know full well that what they talk about will be turned into big dollars by many in the audience. Understandably, they want their business model to include professional speaking. From my own perspective, I fully expect to assist some of the socialmedia experts who want to add professional speaking to their arsenal, in my role as an Advanced Presentation Skills Coach.
If you see yourself in this third group, then you need to forget about the conferences like the one you described, and focus on the ones that pay, plus the ones where, for whatever reason, you are happy to speak for free.
The line I get hit with quite a lot, from associations in particular, is ‘We’re a not-for-profit, so we don’t have a big budget.’ In many cases, the absolute joke is, while the association itself may not be out to make a buck, their conference is being attended by individual business people who are simply raking it in. So pay up!
Even many charities expect to pay for professional talent, these days. Simple fact: later this year I will be doing two gigs for high-profile Australian charities, at a vastly reduced rate, but not for free. Win-Win. Same thing happened earlier this year, when I did a hoax speech for a lesser fee, to raise money for a major Melbourne hospital that treated many of our bushfire victims. Win-Win. No-one’s offering to put free food in my kids’ mouths, so it’s ‘User Pays’.
So next time you get asked to speak for free to an audience who are, let’s face it, ‘in it for the money’, politely say ‘No thanks’, and smartly step aside so you won’t be killed in the rush by all the wannabes thundering in to take your place.
Cheers!
4:09 am on October 8th, 2009
But wait — it can get worse! I recently spoke at a conference in Boston, a 4-hour drive from my office. When I arrived at check in at the hotel, I was told that the conference organizers were not covering my hotel room. It was 10 pm, and I wasn’t going anywhere, so I coughed up the $290 for the hotel room. I spoke the next day (for free) and went home — out 2 days of my time and some $500 in gas and cash for the room. The conference organizers then had the unmitigated gall to ask me if it would be okay if they used my content and presentation for a book they were publishing. So that they could then make MORE profit from my knowledge. That’s when I decided to draw the line, and I no longer speak at any conference that doesn’t, at the very least, cover my costs.
What drives me nuts is that somehow they assume that because my field is PR, and I happen to be on the consulting end of it, I will benefit from exposure to their attendees. As a measurement expert, I can tell you exactly how much benefit I derive from each speech. I know how many leads and how many contacts and contracts I bring in from every conference at which I speak. I then do the math, calculating the value of a lead, and value of a client. Nine times out of ten, the conference organizers are making WAY more money than I am.
7:13 am on October 8th, 2009
Idiots!
Thank you for sharing this justified rant.
Two years ago I flew the opposite direction across the Pacific and spoke at the Aboriginal Tourism Australia Conference. They couldn’t pay, but they managed to cover the costs of my transport and lodging. It was a great event and one in which I built lasting friendships and a series of contacts that span your continent. I couldn’t be more pleased.
7:14 am on October 8th, 2009
I’m with you 100% on this one Darren. The one thing that I always get from you is value, if not from you directly, from people that engage with you on your blogs who leave such insightful responses as is evidenced above; so when you say “the conference that this post is about actually asked me in their pitch to tweet and blog about it – I found this particularly ‘cheeky’.” you have absolutely every right to feel this way.
Regards,
Karl
7:10 am on October 9th, 2009
On January 1 of this year, I made just one New Year’s Resolution: to never speak for free. I’ve slipped once or twice, but only when my travel is covered — and then only when it was for an organization I believed in.
Best resolution I’ve ever made!
11:02 am on October 9th, 2009
The reality is that many of the speakers are employed. Their companies pay their expenses. The organization sees it as great PR, a soft sale. They’re happy to pay those expenses. The challenge is when these conference organizers expect people who aren’t employed to cover expenses in the same way. I’ve spoken for some of them. I don’t think I will again. Even when I’ve gotten business from the attendees, the irritation of working for those companies is simply too great. And they never leave you alone. I could tell you some stories! But I guess all of us who have done this could as well.
11:35 am on October 9th, 2009
Great post, Darren. I enjoyed as someone starting to transition from free speaking to expenses paid speaking and hopefully paid speaking!
3:04 pm on October 10th, 2009
I agree wholeheartedly with you Darren. I will on occasion speak for free if I believe in the cause or if I’m asked by someone I trust, but it’s financially not viable to extend yourself over and over in the hopes of getting more clients. I’ve also noticed the offers for these free gigs has increased since I wrote Twitter for Dummies with co-authors Laura Fitton and Michael Gruen, always with the additional caveat “well, you can hawk your book”. This is a flat out slimy way of doing things. I’d rather go and give a rocking presentation that gives people the tools and concepts they need to get THEIR work done, to inspire people, NOT to hawk a book. Well said, all around.
5:01 pm on October 10th, 2009
As a full-time professional speaker for 30 years, I’ll tell you this is happening more and more. And get this — some conferences are actually wanting speakers to PAY to speak. Not just the reg fee and expenses. Their reasoning is they are putting you in front of highly qualified buyers. Yep. And that FL swamp land is a good deal, too.
I have spoken free more times than I’d like to count to organizations where I naively believed the pitch that I’d be in front of buyers. I’ve learned there are usually few, if any, people who could actually pay for my services. “Buyer” often meant someone else who wanted a freebie. I’ve also learned that the organizers of these events often treat you in accordance to what they paid you. They treat you like an unwelcomed requirement to their conference, not inviting you to VIP receptions, not introducing you to key players, not having someone help you with a breakout of 1000 people, not providing an introducer, etc.
When organizers say they can’t afford to pay you, you can figure out how much they paid for dessert, silly pillow gifts, or marginal “entertainment.” Even if these were sponsored, that money could instead go to hire high-quality speakers, who, as you say, aren’t about pitching from the platform.
Those of us who are members of the National Speakers Association pride ourselves on giving high value. (Membership in the organization does not guarantee that the speaker won’t pitch, however.) But in this economy, more and more people who got laid off are getting into the speaking business and inundating the market with free speeches. It makes it harder for those who have crafted our expertise and delivery for decades. It will be interesting to see if paid speaking goes the way of newspapers, with these unpaid speakers similar to we bloggers who have become respected voices, and only a few remain economically viable.
Thanks for bringing this issue to the blogsphere. Maybe it will cause some organizers to think twice about the free-speaker model.
8:48 am on October 11th, 2009
Great post and comments Darren, sorry I am so late to find this (Via @missrogue’s link).
Here is what I have noticed; Most conferences want speakers to present for free. A few can cover travel, but most won’t cover anything. Their rationale is ‘There will be 300 attendees, so you’ll have exposure to hundreds of potential clients!’
That sounds good in theory. But what I’m finding is that most of the attendees aren’t coming to events looking for a consultant or firm to hire. They are often attending multiple social media conferences, taking copious notes at each, having one-on-one meetings with expert speakers, then going home and attending to do the work themselves.
To be honest, there are simply WAY too many social media/blogging/twitter conferences right now. And there’s many people that want to make a name for themselves in this space, and will happily speak for free, if given the chance. Good for them, and I did the same thing when I started speaking. But the conferences are the ones short-selling the speakers, and ultimately the attendees, as the speakers are put in a position where they NEED to sell to the attendees just to make back the cost of the trip.
Good rant, Darren. You should do this more often ;)
1:07 pm on October 12th, 2009
Joel…I know Darren does Christian events…but this event seems to be a business event. Many Christian events do their best to pay their speakers and pay travel expenses. I spoke at a small ladies meeting and they paid me. Likewise when our church ask a speaker to come we do our best to bless them. While we are a small church right now we always do our best and many Christian organizations do the same.
5:32 pm on October 15th, 2009
Thanks for sharing this. :) I have taken this presentation skills workshop. I gained a lot of confidence and was able to prepare effective slides. Now, I’m looking for a bigger goal.
2:31 am on October 30th, 2009
I am a professional speaker who speaks for free and sells. I provide a level of information that encourages the audience to buy my product to spend more time with me. There is nothing wrong with a good sales sppech.
12:56 am on December 15th, 2009
I agree with you as well, but I think this goes beyond speaking. What about the Huffington Post model of people writing for free on blogs while others make money? Or blogs that rely on guest contributors for all content? It’s the same pitch by blogs: we’ll give you exposure, you’ll get traffic to your site, etc…Once in a while, I don’t think a guest post is a bad move, just like once in a while, I’ll do a free get together in my hometown just for goodwill. But if people want a professional presentation, or a great blog post, they will have to pay.
3:16 pm on January 6th, 2010
Darren, we’re having a party for my 9 year old daughter here in Chicago next week. Can you fly up here and do some entertaining? Balloon-tying, juggling, magic tricks would be great. You’ll need to cover your costs getting here and lodging, but we’re excited to offer you all the free food and drinks you desire at the party itself.
(I love your stuff. Your rant is well placed. Keep up the great work.)
12:26 am on February 12th, 2010
I like the way you responded in a way to find out if you were being paid without coming right out and saying it. I agree though, if I were as popular as you were in a niche about blogging then I would want to be paid as well.
In either case I just request that someday you make a trip to Seattle, WA and when you do I’ll be sure to come by.
Chris Guthrie
6:11 am on April 1st, 2010
Great post and great discussion. I am so glad that this issue is “out there” now for us to talk over and maybe even solve. The phrase “no budget for speakers” to me sounds like a group that should not be planning a conference. This would be part of your basic business plan for an event–to budget all major components. If you want professional speakers then expect to pay them. If you are going to ask people to donate time (and many of us do) say so UP FRONT, however this is only appropriate in certain situations. If you are not a non-profit or cause related group and you are collecting a hefty fee for attendance…probably not the best approach. By standing firm on your fees and getting paid what you are worth you create a viable business. This in turn allows you to donate your time and energy (with full knowledge) to groups you select.
9:53 pm on May 20th, 2010
Darren,
Good points made in your post as well as the supporting comments that I just trawled through. Interestingly I’ve done two talks this month, one here in Sydney the second in Kuala Lumpur which I arrived home from today. Both for free.
Note the KL one did pay for my flight and accommodation. They also got their pound of flesh from me, not only was I the Keynote speaker on Day 2 but ended up being chair for the whole of the second day, as well as some of day 1, something I was requested to do at short notice.
Key challenge I had with both conferences was that the delegates who attended were not the demographic the organisers had advertised/targeted.
I had a very different experience at each conference and am now ending the month considering how I handle these requests into the future. With this in mind your post and all the comments are very timely and great food for thought. Thank you to you all.
Quick side note – it surprises me no-one has applied the Day 20 task of 31dbbb to their comments. For those of you who blog and haven’t had a look at Darren’s 31dbbb you should. The Day 20 task ‘Leave comments on other blogs’ is a great way to bring life to your own site.
With that in mind if you head over to http://www.enduranceit.com.au you can get some insight as to what I do and spoke about for free on two occasions this months.
Thank you
Andrew
7:11 am on June 14th, 2010
Wow a lot of comments… I just spend over an hour reading them all. I totally agree with you – even though I’m not that big blogger yet.
10:34 pm on January 6th, 2011
Darren;
Glad you made it to Blogworld (because we got to meet there – I was with Reggie & Nicole Nicolay ) and thank you for making the points that run around my head each time I’m asked to do something for free when someone else is profiting. Like you , my business model does not involve selling a product – and lime you I hate when pseudo-speakers promote themselves at events I attend.
There are occasions where one might speak somewhere just for expenses, – if the event was one you really wanted to attend or the venue was terrific, or you were supporting a friend, an organization, or a cause, but for someone of your stature to be asked to pay your own expenses is just inconsiderate – and indicative of a large set of cojones on the part of the person making the request.